INTERVIEW WITH EVE SCOTT – 17 May 2002

 

Interviewed by Suzanne Mulligan

__________________________________________________________________________

 

 

When war was declared, how did you react?

 

Well, when war was declared, it was unbelievable, but I was serving in the Red Cross and going out to hospitals.  It was deep shock that it ever should come to our Australia.  It was a terrific shock because I know that I for one and many others were dedicated to Australia.

 

Where did you live when the war began?

 

I lived at Gracemere, working in a butter factory in Rockhampton in the office and when war was declared I said I wanted to go and my dad said you’ve had to board away for quite a few years to get home because no transport.  He said “here you’re back and you want to go again”.  “Can I join Dad”.  “No”.  I got the forms.  When I came home with them.  He said “I’m very proud of you soldier girl.  I wasn’t allowed to go to the first world war because I worked on the bridges and the railway.  Come back the same way that you left.”  That was a moral code.  I did too.

 

How did you come to join the Central Bureau?

 

Well as I said in the back of my book, I was in many stations.  I was down in Forest Hill, Wagga Wagga, 7 Stores Depot, Drayton Toowoomba, and then it came through very quickly.  I looked at the signal.  I thought “what’s RAAF Command Bureau Intelligence?”  Didn’t really, didn’t hear about it.  You see, it was such a closely guarded thing and the Army girl who spoke at that function recently, she’d been there longer than I had.  It was because at that time it was such a closely guarded secret and we really were due to go to Manila and they had to get a lot of people to come in and train and they wanted us to go to Manila.  So actually I didn’t know really about it all.  You see it was such a closely guarded secret.  When I got there it still was closely guarded.  You didn’t know the people next to you – didn’t know who they were.

 

What date did you join?

 

It would have been early ’45 because I was there for about 10 months.

 

What did you do before then?

 

Well I was still stationed 7 Stores Depot Toowoomba and waiting to be moved.  I don’t know how I got there, can’t remember.  When I got there, we were sent to 21 Henry Street, Ascot, Headquarters at Brisbane.  We were only there a short time and the Flight Lieutenant, Frank Ward.  He won the Golden Casket at the end of the war - $6,000.00.  And all of a sudden we were moved from there to Oriel Park, Ascot in the fire station.  And when I got there I was so scared of these machines, I didn’t want to learn.  An American WAC Sergeant was very persuasive and I was soon sitting there.  They were like the statisticians machine they tell me, IBM machines I guess and we put a key in and we had to slot the card in it and I know we had to do 1,000 cards a night.  I think why we were chosen, honestly, and people get a little upset by this is because we were shorthand/typists – all static machine normally and the keys on the right hand side, all static.  We didn’t take note of what the others were doing.  We didn’t eat Australian food – we ate the Yankee food.  We taught them to drink tea and they taught us to drink coffee.  But I didn’t know anything about it, not really.  It was so closely guarded.  When I got there, I soon found out and two boys used to say “Is Scotty on board?”  Norm and Jack – Jack was married I think but it was very closely guarded.  We know more now from books and things I’m reading.  We weren’t allowed to go to Manila.

 

What did you actually do?

 

We did the coding and the Yanks did the de-coding.  We were told – no talking, head down and bottom up.  Do 1,000 cards a night.

 

What shift did you work?

 

Four till midnight.  Couldn’t go anywhere.

 

Five days a week?

 

Yes, about 2 pound 12 and 6 per fortnight.

 

How old were you when you started working there?

 

I would have been about 26.

 

And you were already married?

 

Yes, just married.  Norm went to Morotai to repatriate the Indian prisoners of war.

 

What did you tell people you did?

 

At the coding section – nothing.  60 years it’s been dormant.

 

But people outside, you said you worked?

 

You never talked about your work.  We were always told “when you finish work, close the shop doors”.

 

Didn’t people ask you – what are you doing?

 

I was on four to midnight.  I could only write to my husband.  Go to work, come home and somebody had set up my iron bed and put the legs on.  We used to collapse around about midnight when I walked in the door.

 

Where did you live then?

 

I lived at RAAF Command, Victoria Park here.  That was where RAAF Command base was.  I understand there were UK, Australian, New Zealanders, Canadians, Americans and I think there were Netherlands.  We never talked about anything.  We were told, you go to work and you forget about it.  And we did.

 

Was that difficult to do?

 

No, it wasn’t.  It was just sort of something that you knew it was secret but you didn’t know what the secret part was.  You didn’t know.  I never talked about a lot of things that I did in other stations.  I’d have to go back at night, have a password, didn’t have it, called back for duty.  This was when I worked in Wagga Wagga and the bayonet was there about two feet from my middle there was a RAAF officer on the other side.  He said the Sergeant’s called back for duty and I was there till 3 o’clock in the morning typing requisitions because the planes were coming through from Darwin – see shorthand/typist, once again, you’re always called back.

 

How many other women were with you in the Central Bureau?

 

There were 11 American WAACS, five Air Force and two Army girls in my section.  I think there could have been 50 or more who did different shifts.  One girl I met at that night, she was Sybil Brady.  She remembers me.  All I can remember is the name Sybil.  You didn’t talk about it – I find it hard to believe now.  I didn’t then because it was just said “keep your mouth closed, head down, bottom up”.

 

Were there men there too?

 

In our section, no.  The WAAAF people put it through there were no Navy at all – only Air Force and AWARS, and WAACS in my section.

 

Did you enjoy your work?

 

Yes.  We did.  We knew there was something that was closely guarded but we didn’t know what.  We were told not to talk about it.  This young man that did the decoding, he was a army fellow, American army boy and we met about 30 years later and we met at Lennons and he was with his wife.  She was an air force girl but not in our section.  We ran into each other and hugged each other in the middle of the road.  I correspond with them still in Florida.  I’ve sent them information about all of this because I did the coding, he did the decoding.

 

What did that involve?  How did it work?

 

I don’t know.  I can’t remember.  See, 60 years ago and you just shelved it and now – it’s only when we’re getting our recognition that some things are coming back but they were there stored but I can’t remember.

 

Can you tell me about a typical day at your work?

 

Well I would be on 4 till midnight.  The Australian food was pilchards and the tins were blown.  We chucked them out and we ate with the Americans.  We ate at the café on the site.  Sometimes we want extra food they’d turn up their radiators.  They’d put their toast on.  I clearly remember this.  We were sort of very happy go lucky and free but we just knew that we had a job to do.  When I joined the Air Force it was one of the proudest days of my life and it was the best four years of my life to become part of that.  I know that my father was so proud of it that I did do that because I was always a person – it was love of country and our anthem.  We all used to go to the Albert Street Methodist Church and we walked around the road – strung across the road and it was navy fellow from Perth – beautiful voice.  We all wanted to get next to him.  Only in the paper about three days ago there’s a write-up about Ron Graynor – he was in the RAAF.  We used to go out to Eagle Junction, singing around the piano. This lady used to say there’s no drinking and there’s no smoking in this house.  And then they wouldn’t want to come but there was quite a lot who did and this man used to play the piano and beautiful singing voice.  He would have been about 20 and two days ago I read a write-up about him.  …

 

How did you react when you heard Singapore had fallen?

 

It was pretty awful because there was a girl that I was with there in Forest Hill, Wagga Wagga.  She was 19 and her husband was over there and that was the thing – I’ve often thought about her.  He went from Singapore to Malaya.  Well I think it was with disbelief but everything was so closely guarded and we thought nothing could ever attack there.  But if people want to get somewhere – all hell let loose, they’ll get there and I belong to the Prisoner of War Association now because I knew a few people in there and I admire those people.  And when you see them coming back from the Burma-Thailand railway.  When my husband was alive we went to Changi three times. ….

 

What was the atmosphere like at work then?

 

[Talked about visit to Singapore in recent years]. [Fall of Singapore was before Eve Scott worked at Central Bureau].

 

Central Bureau meant a lot to me.  I was so honoured to be part of such a secret code.  I like to talk but I didn’t.  I couldn’t talk about it.  It was something hidden at the back of the mind.  We must have been told not to talk.

 

Did you know about the bombing of Darwin?

 

[Also before when Eve Scott worked at Central Bureau].  Yes.  I knew about the bombing of Darwin and the American ships went down.  …

 

Were you frightened?

 

In 1942.  Yes I joined in 1941.  I was down in Richmond when that mini-sub came through.  I was on leave in Sydney.  They called all air force back to base and the black blinds were drawn and we got back and then they told us there was a mini-sub.  They didn’t get the mother sub but they got the mini one.  I remember the scramble to get back on transport back to the RAAF base at Richmond.

 

You said you had to put your clothing under the bed.

 

We joined on 1 December and the Japanese came on the 7^th.  And that’s when we were moved.  We were moved to Richmond, these three girls and I – there weren’t a lot of WAAAF then but the three of us and took us from Richmond down to Forest Hill, Wagga Wagga.  That’s when we had to have all our clothes in a port under our bed and they said if the Japanese came and got anywhere near to Australia, they said we had to be civilians.  Richmond, I was told one day to go on parade.  I was the only WAAAF on end of parade with 500 RAAF.  I crawled through the hole in the wall.  Richmond was called tent city, surrounded by tents and there was a hole in the wall and I crept down through there.  I can still remember that.  It was rather nerve wracking one day and I used to wear nice perfume Evening of Paris and one day these two RAAF officers, one brother was a missionary in Africa and said “if it’s not there, it’ not there” and this was getting up my nose at the end of the day.  The next day a package came for me – it was lovely lot of perfume.  Tent city – you see there weren’t many WAAAFs down there at that time – very few.  One time I remember going on a – being a sergeant then – I was in Forest Hill, Wagga Wagga and I was there and I on with a WAAAF officer and I was a sergeant then and we got almost past the bed and she went back and she pulled the bedclothes off and there was this kit-bag stuffed up like a body in the bag and I said she pulled it up and she said “what are you going to do about that now Sergeant?” I said “I don’t know, she’s my workmate”.  “What are you going to do about it Sergeant?”  Anyhow she was my workmate and she had to do duty and she explained to me her boyfriend was going overseas.  She didn’t hold it against me because she took me down to Sydney to meet her family.  Such was the feeling of “oh well” – you know.

 

Did you meet General MacArthur?

 

Oh yes.  And there’s a man died very recently, Alan Campbell. Yes we did.  We went into in his office but no we didn’t see him a lot.  But we saw, we knew of him.  He was revered really.  Lot of people might say oh well because they bombed Pearl Harbour - … Someone said to me “What would you have done if the Japs hadn’t come in to Pearl Harbour?”  Supposing the Americans hadn’t been there.  I said “You thank heavens, the Americans were there!”  And I said “We’d hear complaints about the planes flying over.”  I’ve written and talked to people about this and I said “If the war was here, you’d be very glad to see the planes come over.” “Oh” but they said “it keeps people awake at night”.  I said “Oh, the poor things”. … I came home from Central Bureau one night and one of the girls said “Scotty, we’re going to Landsborough there’s a lady up there and she looks after all the service people.”  I said “I haven’t got any money!”  “Oh” they said “don’t worry about that, we’ll extract that from you next day, we’ll pay your fare.”  Truly, such was the feeling of mateship and comradeship and yet today people don’t quite think like that.  I think I was tremendously honoured.  As Legacy said “You were there at a very crucial time”.  And I was, but I didn’t know it.

 

So how did your work at the Central Bureau affect your personal life at the time?

 

No, I don’t think it affected my personal life.  I was just writing to Norm.  He was in Morotai – he was repatriating Indian prisoners of war.  He was a medical orderly and it didn’t really affect my personal life.  I just spent my time writing to him and when he came back we met on the station in civilian clothes the first time ever we’d seen each other said it’s too late now isn’t it Eve.  No it didn’t really affect my life.  It just affected that – I guess that we were very uptight at that time.  Norm was away and he was on the SS Manunda?? repatriating Indian prisoners of war and the story goes that a fellow bumped into me at Greenslopes Hospital.  I did a lot of work at Greenslopes after the war and this man said “Eve, you haven’t heard this.  Norm wasn’t at Weewak, he was in Morotai but he said I was at Weewak surrender site”.  And he said “one of these other Indian prisoners of war they knew about stood up and when the Japanese came on he went up and knocked him out cold.”  He said I suppose it’s the only way he could say “you’ve kept me for three years, whoever you are, I’m going to punch you.”  After the war years when Robin was two we only had khaki clothes – we had no money.  But money did have value then but it hasn’t now.  But it didn’t affect me really.  I had a good marriage. My husband worked about six shifts at Greenslopes and when he was about 50 had opportunity to go and become anaesthetic technician and he was very dedicated to me and the three children.  [Discussed Norm’s studies].  He was a technician for 10 years at Greenslopes Hospital.

 

How did you feel the day you learned the Japanese had surrendered?

 

Sense of disbelief.  We couldn’t believe the war was over.  It was unbelievable because it had been going on for so long.  A lot of girls had got out.  They didn’t want to stay in.  If you were married and didn’t have children, which was me you couldn’t get out.  We were enlisted then.  We were “enrolled” initially but when it came to ’43 and things were pretty tough, we then had to enlist or get out and I didn’t want to get out.  It was just – I thought “I’m here to do this” and I never entertained the thought of getting out.  When the Japanese were there.  I find it hard to believe – I think you can forgive, but you can’t forget because a lot of people that you knew suffered great privation from those people.  I can remember 1937 when I was in Rockhampton seeing Japanese sampans right out on the horizon – 1937!  When it hit Darwin, it was a bit of a rude awakening.  As far as the Japanese were concerned, the sad part with those people, they have never never been told but I think – it’s coming out.  I think they are wanting to know. … [Discussed Japanese apologising].

 

How long did you stay working at Central Bureau after the war?

 

The war ended in August – about three months and I was told to come back and I worked in the medical section with Doctor Fuchman??.  He was a Polish man.  He joined the Polish army.  When he wanted to get away from there he escaped to Australia and eventually my husband worked with him at Greenslopes Hospital.  We used to visit him.  Yes, only about three months.  I had to wait for Norm to come back.  He came back in December.  First time in civilian clothes – him in his pin strip suit, me with my hair flowing out.  It was a culture shock too.  I’m just so proud of my service life and of my dedication to my country.  A lot of people now are really beginning to talk about Australia and its benefits. …  My mother was born in Normanton.  My dad was born in New South Wales and he came up and met my mother in Longreach and that’s where I was born.  You are just so grateful and now since this has come up, this Innovation.  You go back a long way – many things are stored there.  I can remember when I joined the Air Force I couldn’t even march straight, I was too tired.  I was 7 stone 3 when I joined the Air Force and a few months later I’d put on about two stone.  They were tough days but I think we all went there with – nobody’s gonna take this country, this belongs to us and the fighting faded.  I'm glad the Americans did come to Australia – one million and my parents and brothers were asked to move from Rockhampton down to Toowoomba because my mother had relatives on the Darling Downs and they were German, great grandparents way back and they had big properties on the Darling Downs and they were asked to move down from the Brisbane Line. … I can’t think of any other things I can think of.  There would be a lot of things I could think of later on except that who could better Brisbane’s weather. … We were involved in Greenslopes Hospital a long time.  One day I went to help .. and I asked this man what battalion are you in and he told me and I just moved into the Diabetic Clinic of Greenslopes Hospital when I moved in there this man was – he was black and I said “You get benefits from here” and he said yes.  He told me his battalion and I said “just a minute” – those two men met, they embraced, they were both in the same battalion, him from East Timor.  We had to help Timor because they saved 40,000 Australian prisoners of war at Java.  I love history and anything I hear like that.  These two people and when I left they were yak yakking, talking going back over the years.  He must have came across and joined the Australians.  They were in the same battalion, 2^nd 31^st I think.  To see them embrace and talking.

 

Those other women in the photo in the newspaper, do you keep in touch?

 

The only one that I knew was Sybil Brady, the army girl.  She remembers me from the WAAAF but I don’t remember her.  But I hear from her, I write to her, ring her.  There’s only Sybil Brady and me and these are all army girls. Betty Chessell she was wonderful on that day.

 

I sent her a letter and she suggested I speak to you.

 

And Betty Turnbull, the AWAR.  They’ve got them all wrong [the names in captions are incorrect].  Sybil Brady is from Sandgate.  Sybil and I were the only two Air Force there.

 

Where does she live?

 

She lives down at Brighton outside Sandgate.  She lived there when she joined the Air Force and she’s back there now.  We’re hoping to meet in the city.

 

Do you have her address?

 

Yes, I’ll give you before you go.  Sybil was nice.  She remembers me but I can’t say I remember her.  She probably was on a different shift.

 

What happened to all the machines?

 

I don’t know.  The fellow that rang me up, Les Smith.  He talked about this – I said “what are you talking about” and he made some funny remark.  Yeah, I was at Central Bureau – I was there, mentioned names like Lt Ward and Wing Commander – can’t remember his name right now.  I can remember Frank Ward won the Golden Casket after the war.  But there’s so many things you want to remember, so many things you want to talk about.  I think you would find a fair bit in that book of mine, particularly 153?? where I say what I did.  Sybil was a shorthand/typist.  I think Rita Taylor – her people had hotels in New Farm and also on the Gold Coast and I went out to see Rita a few times.  She went to America and married an American civilian … I saw her at her property at New Farm, talked about that. … So went the Central Bureau thing came out, I tried to get her.  I was getting quite desperate and I rang a few numbers – one must have told the other, somewhere and her niece rang me and I’ve given the name to Central Bureau because they’re entitled to get – their relatives, to get that accreditation.  The other one that came from Mackay.  I knew both those quite well.  I was here … but see we didn’t – it was so quiet and the Sergeant Phyllis …  I used to set her hair every day.  I just put a stocking around their head and shoved their hair up.  So it was to me disbelief when we heard it – the war was over.  I can remember I was somewhere and I remember I was at Victoria Park either going to work or finished work and I can still see myself standing in the middle pathway.  There’s one girl, …  It’s just such an honour to be part of something for your country – that’s what you joined up for.

 

Any particular incident while you were working at the Central Bureau that stands out?

 

No, not really because I was four till midnight and all the others were on shift, doing something and they worked for Squadron Leaders because it wasn’t part of what you had to do.  One girl I remember … I’ll give you some copies of Central Bureau that was sent to me from South Australia, somebody I had never met and one of the names under Air Vice Marshall … he was the … on RAAF command and Betty Rowland is one of the girls in my hut.  Then there was Cassilda – Cassilda’s in Victoria.  They’d come up to our place at different times and I remember one time she was at Indooroopilly – she had to go out there because they’d captured a Japanese.  She had to interview him.  And I still contact a Dorothy Walker in Victoria.  There’s quite a few of the girls that were on RAAF command and some of them were cipher but they were not at Central Bureau.  They were in the RAAF headquarters with the Allied Headquarters with MacArthur.  You came home and you never talked about what you did.  It was just automatic – you didn’t talk about what you did.  One girl in my book there, Elwyn and Keith Kattach??  He was due to go to the Philippines and she was in the same hut with me and there was only her and her husband and … were in the Albert Street church – they got married and he went away but no for long I don’t think but we’ve been in contact and I’m still in contact with quite a few of those girls.  It’s the girls here in Brisbane that I feel sad for because they don’t say “come along Eve, let’s hear, let’s talk about it, let’s discuss it”.  That is just “we should have all got it, who are you, why were you singled out”  When I told Les Smith that he said “you weren’t singled out, you were with Central Bureau”  I said “yes” and I consider myself extremely fortunate.  I think a lot of servicewomen should have got more recognition.  I’ve contacted people from the heritage award – they contact me from Canberra each year to give a story about something.  I’ve written Women at War I’ve done that book and the other one and one the last book said they never got it – but somebody got it.  Now I got a letter from them the other day to say that a lot of women had never talked about what they did and I sent a reply to that insofar as … that’s very true.  The books that I’ve sent you, I’ve never got any recognition or anybody from that book got recognition.  I said to the man – with him at the cadets at Karumba Downs down towards the Pine Rivers.  I keep in touch with him quite a lot because I’m for the cadets and I set up a … he was in before Vietnam – Korea.  He’d be 73 now – I did a whole story of him, went down to his place.  I said don’t get … get them out from under the bed.  And I did … he was single and I contacted, wrote up a whole book … got a copy of it.  He didn’t get recognition, but an Air Commodore did.  Now that’s grossly unfair because we all joined with that real purpose in mind.  He was in Korea and he went across to Korea, Malaya, …. occupation forces and then he wanted to go to Vietnam and they said “you’ll have to drop a rank or two” and he said “blow you” and he wouldn’t drop a rank and he said “No” and … a whole … presented to the Queen and … after the war years and they didn’t get recognition but there was one man – I forget what he was – he might have been Air Commodore too and he wanted a story about me from my book Women at War now he said “I want to talk about the women and the things they did”  Now that’s the only book that’s ever been written is what I wrote.  And I wouldn’t have written it only I destroyed my diary and Norm said to me “You’re disgusting, Eve”.  So, he wasn’t very well then, 1984, this was so I thought well I suppose it is awful I did a lot of things at the beginning of the war and he … there was a very big diary at the back.  Harry Wright was a Pathfinder.  Harry’s died too.  And we got … we did it.  That book has sold out, they want more but I said “if you want more, I will sign it and you can get it printed” but I said I’m not putting any money out.  I said “if you want to do it I will give you the authority” because it’s the only one that’s been done.  Anyway Norm said to me “Oh you’re disgusting Eve”  So I got … that’s the kind of planes I want … and all that sort of thing.  When I got married – all that is in the book and then I went down there to New South Wales to … and I was wildly excited because this book was gonna be printed.  As it turned out, Norm died in 1984 and the book got out in 1985.  It never would have got out.  Norm got at me telling me I was disgusting and I’ve always been pleased about that because that photo I gave you was in that book.  But I told them at the Library in Canberra, they can print them, I will give authority for that … But this man that won the heritage award.  You wanted women to do this and then he said it’s come out abut the codebreakers albeit that’s has been told.  I thought “really” so I wrote back a little bit more and I said “I best wishes” in brackets, I put “what for” what he give me best wishes for, what’s he trying to wish me best wishes for.   All I’ve done is given me a pain in the heart and anyhow … you talked about heritage awards, okay let’s have a heritage award about what I’ve done … finished off.  Now I won’t hear from them because different men that have done it, they have got it.  They’re complaining about women but they’re not letting you do it.  Norm working overseas all those years and he got melanoma, he died eighteen years ago and if it hadn’t been for him, that book never would have been written.  Because he said “you are disgusting, Eve”.  But at the time you think “oh well”, the clothes you cut up for the kids to wear and all sorts of things you’ve done but I got my diggers hat and that’s the original badge – that’s the original Air Force badge that.  You can’t get that – I paid $10.00 for that oh gee about 20 years ago.

 

Can you put it on?

 

Yes, I will all right, Can you go and get it for me.  You look at it and you think “is this me getting this” … I look at that and I never take it away from there but see the one in the corner [points out photo] that’s my son in the army cadets, that’s Wayne in the army cadets.  He said to me “I don’t want to do what you did Mum.  I want to do what Dad did” well that’s fair enough.  He was in the cadets at Brisbane State High for about three years.